Back in April, I participated in a fun debate exercise on the Fermented Fiction podcast.

There, they take on a film or book title, invite a guest to a friendly debate and—determined by a 20-sided die roll—determine who is “for” and who is “against” that narrative work.

This, of course, is done live, and you have to come prepared to know what side you’re taking, as the die isn’t rolled until the show is already streaming.

No pressure.

As one of their April-May guests, I was invited to debate the surprise film hit of 2024, The Substance. Not only this, but my  debate opponent was none other than my current Beneath the Rain Shadow podcast co-host, Clay Vermulm.

The film stars Demi Moore as Elizabeth Sparkle, a popular middle-aged TV fitness influencer who is replaced by the show producer when he decides she’s too “old” for the role. She makes a classic “deal with the devil” choice to reclaim the show she’d built from the ground up, but as expected, there’s a price to pay and terms to meet for that to work for all involved.

I rolled the high number and leaned into my arguments for the merits of the film, while my opponent Clay countered with reasons why the movie wasn’t so great. And that is all I’m gonna tell you about how it went down… you can watch it for yourself right here!